T4D #88 - Fluke multimeters with leaking / corroded surface mount supercap

[BravoV]

My fresh 1st post here ! 

Martin, just want to thank you in making the video just for addressing this issue, really appreciate that knowingly you're having quite some hectic time at this moment in your life there.

Looking forward to hear Fluke(Duane) responds for these from you.

Again, thank you.

[MJLorton]

My pleasure.

Here is a link to the video as a reference for others: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VySoQ5CLmF0

Duane has just emailed this response to me:

On 1/6/2014 6:40 PM, Smith, Duane wrote:> We are aware of the failures of this particular part. We are working with the vendor in hopes of determining why these particular parts are leaking.
> Customers who have units either where the cap has failed or experienced leakage can get their units repaired under warranty at their closest Fluke service facility.
>   Since this part is soldered to the pcb, customer replacement is not recommended as it will void the units warranty.
>
> The capacitor specification says that the capacitor should draw <150 uA after 10 minutes.
> If there were one measurement to take, it would be to measure battery draw with the unit off after applying  the battery voltage for 10 minutes. The
> current draw on failed caps will rise after 10 minutes.
>
> The good news is the supercap is only in the unit to maintain the units date and time. It has no other purpose. It does not support instrument memory or logged /saved readings.
> After we hear back from our component vendor we will determine next steps needed if any but for the short-term customers who own units affected by this part can have it replaced
>   under warranty through Fluke service centers worldwide.
>
> Cheers, Duane

[BravoV]

Martin, thank you !

[Mr Eastwood]

Does anyone have a schematic / service manual for any of the Fluke models affected?  i'm just curious to see the circuit arrangement with the super-cap.

[Davel81]

yes I have a fluke 289 and it's my favourite meter, I must check the super cap this weekend. also does anyone have issues with the ac voltage measurement,  sometimes I get a reading of around 3.4 vac with the probes open circuit in mid air!!!  and it should read 0v give our take a few millivolts. if I toggle the selector switch to another function and back again it returns to normal. and also lately I find like a ghosting or Flicker in the display,  I must say for the price of the meter I am a little disappointed. having said a all that thanks for pointing out the issue with the video, it was your review of the meter on YouTube that convinced me to make the purchase, keep up the good work 

[retiredcaps]

Does anyone have a schematic / service manual for any of the Fluke models affected?

The service manual I found for the 87IV and 89IV have no schematics.

[Davel81]

  Ok so i just opened my 289 and im gutted. the cap is showing signs of corrosion. i have it 8-9 months date of manufacture is 9-april-2012. and when i put the batteries back in i had to enter the correct time. I'm a little disappointed in the build quality as i was expecting this meter to serve me well for many years to come. i have attached a photo but im not sure if its clear enough to see

[SeanB]

Time to RMA it then, or order a new capacitor and solder it in if you are not covered by a warranty any more.

[Davel81]

Ya i'm in the middle of composing a strongly worded email to there customer service department!

[retiredcaps]

i have it 8-9 months date of manufacture is 9-april-2012.

If you are the original owner and purchased it from an authorized Fluke dealer, I suggest sending it in for warranty.  Though not guaranteed, there are stories on the Internet, that Fluke usually does a calibration check on your meter for free with your repair/replacement.

If Fluke service gives you a problem, refer them to Martin's video and Duane's email response.

[MJLorton]

Further feedback from Duane (Fluke)"
"As a follow up to this discussion, I've attached the datasheet for the supercap. If you review Note 1 toward the bottom of the page, it makes note of "brown deposited materials found around the sealing area" and the fact that this material will not affect the electrical performance of the part. So, in essence in some situations this leakage could be found as normal under some environmental conditions. Regardless, we plan on still working with the vendor to clarify this further."

[SeanB]

If it did not keep time while the battery was removed, and the time without battery was less than probably 24 hours ( what the capacitor should at least be capable of running the clock, I have seen some that will last a month or more running a real time clock on a similar supercap without power) then the capacitor is definitely faulty. The cap should at least be capable of running the clock for a day to cover the battery going flat and you getting new ones the next day.

[Davel81]

Yes i would imagine there is something wrong with it alright. i would only know the basics when it comes to electronics to be fair. My trade is focused on more low voltage automation control and repair. having said that i am learning bit by bit and am extremely grateful for all your help and advice between these forums and the videos posted on you tube. so thank you all.

Having said that here is the first reply i received from fluke uk customer service an hour ago with regard the 289.

Thank you for contacting Fluke, the 280 series are under the “Industrial Products Limited Lifetime Warranty”, please see this web page for more information.
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uken/service/warranties/default.htm

Please call or e-mail Fluke service from the contact details on this same web page to arrange repair of your meter. Alternatively the unit can be returned to the distributor you purchased from to arrange repair, our apologies for any inconvenience caused.

Regards
Phil Sabberton
Fluke UK Tech Support
 
So i have sent the same mail to the address on the website stated above (UKServiceDesk@fluke.com)
I shall post there reply when i receive one. hopefully it might save someone like me some time.
 

[Davel81]

With regards SeanB last post i only had the batteries out an hour at most and i had to enter the time again but the date was correct 

[SeanB]

So voltage dropped below the minimum needed to keep the clock oscillator running but was above the minimum retention voltage. How much was the time behind, gives an indication of how long it took the cap to discharge below the critical voltage. Depending on the clock circuit used it probably stopped at around 1V8 for the clock.

Wonder what the voltage is across the capacitor in a meter with the batteries in it, would be interesting to see the voltage, as the abs. max voltage for the capacitor is 3V3. most of these capacitors that I have seen with a single capacitor unit are 2V5 rated with 3V as an absolute max short term voltage. A more reliable alternative would be a 5v unit, as it has 2 matched cell units in series.